|24| Honey Lemon Shots: We went to couples therapy

Another honey lemon shot but this time we have my fiance joining me because in this episode we're diving deep into our couples therapy experience. This was something I had been wanting to do with my partner Len for years but he had major reservations about it. I thought it was important to talk about why we decided couples therapy was right for us but also how we both gave each other space to be ready for it.

Len also discusses in depth why he was so against therapy at the beginning and how his thoughts have changed. Most importantly he came to these conclusions on his own and in his own time.

Have you been to couples therapy or even individual therapy? How did it work for you?

If you want to connect with my silly goofy fiance you can find him here.

Want more Honey Lemon?
Follow us on IG @thehoneylemonpod

This podcasts features music created by Mod8rn Sounds.

Don't forget to rate, review, subscribe and do all those lovely wonderful things if you want to support the pod and support me!

Transcript

Couples therapy

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Honey Lemon Podcast: A Sweet and Sour Chat

[00:00:00] Lendall: Who's coming into Zoom? 

[00:00:01] Angie: Just, just you and me, baby.

[00:00:02] Lendall: Hello out there. Oh, 

[00:00:04] Angie: no. Okay. Welcome back to the Honey Lemon Podcast. My name is Angie, and I'm your host, diving into those sweet and sour experiences that make us who we are. So, today it's kind of a solo episode, kind of not, because I am joined by my fiancé, Rendall. Say hello Rendall. 

[00:00:25] Lendall: You always say that's a solo episode, but kind of not.

Can I not be a guest? 

[00:00:29] Angie: Yeah, but this is not a guest episode where I'm, like, diving into your life. You're just, we're just talking about our life currently.

[00:00:37] Lendall: And apparently that's not the same thing. 

[00:00:39] Angie: No, it's not. Have you listened to my podcast? 

[00:00:43] Lendall: Yep. I just one time want to be introduced as a guest. 

[00:00:45] Angie: Okay, how about I do another guest episode with you at a later date? A real guest episode. It will happen. But you have Comment 

[00:00:53] Lendall: below if you want to see Lendall in the next future guest episode.

But you 

[00:00:57] Angie: have to be willing to be vulnerable and be [00:01:00] real, okay?

 You heard it here first, folks. Okay, so. 

[00:01:06] The Big Life Update: Wedding Bells and Preparations

[00:01:06] Angie: This episode, I just wanted to talk about a big life update or a life event that's going to be happening in our lives in just a few months.

So we are gonna get married soon in Less than three months actually. Oh my god less than three months and there's lots happening. Lots of money being spent lots of Not really changes in our life

84 days

84 days But things start before that 

[00:01:40] Lendall: Yeah, but the the 84 

[00:01:44] Angie: days is less than three months, right? Yes. Yeah. 

[00:01:49] Lendall: But it's nice to know in days. 

[00:01:50] Angie: Okay. 

[00:01:51] Engagement Journey and Wedding Countdown

[00:01:51] Angie: So yeah, we are starting, well, we've been doing this, so first of all, let's talk about our, how long we've been engaged. [00:02:00] When did we get engaged? 

[00:02:01] Lendall: June 2021. 

[00:02:04] Angie: Wasn't it July? How do you know? 

[00:02:06] Lendall: Because I know. 

[00:02:07] Angie: Okay, we'll confirm that date. Don't check it now. Please. 

[00:02:12] Lendall: Okay, 

[00:02:15] Angie: Lendall is confirming. 

[00:02:17] Lendall: June 2021. 

[00:02:19] Angie: Okay, so we are now in May 2024. So we have been engaged for a good three years. We wanted a long engagement just because we weren't in a rush.

We wanted to be able to celebrate the way we wanted to celebrate. Have everyone there that we wanted and, you know, just do it right. Are you regretting that decision? Do you wish we had like a COVID wedding and just had really small, intimate?

[00:02:47] Lendall: No regrets, Shugabee. 

[00:02:49] Angie: I'm kind of having some regrets. 

[00:02:51] Lendall: That's okay, you're entitled to an opinion. 

[00:02:52] Angie: But at the same time, I know like, when the day comes, it's gonna be fun and I'm gonna be happy that we have all of our. 

[00:02:58] Lendall: Oh my god, I'm so [00:03:00] happy. This is such a great time.

[00:03:01] Angie: Yes. It happens all the time. Yes, that probably will be the case. 

[00:03:05] The Importance of Couples Therapy Before Marriage

[00:03:05] Angie: So, how are we preparing for our married life ahead? I have been a strong proponent of therapy for many, many years. I've been in singular therapy for, I guess, before the pandemic, so 2019. On and off, but pretty consistent. And I was pretty adamant that I wanted us to do couples counseling before we got married.

How did you feel about couples counseling prior to actually wanting to do it? Because I know you were having some reservations. 

[00:03:38] Lendall: I thought it was not needed. So I felt like this going back like three years ago, two years ago, when did you tell me that? Three years ago? 

[00:03:49] Angie: That I wanted to go to couples counseling?

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like soon after we got engaged, maybe, or like, it had come up a few times. 

[00:03:57] Lendall: Yeah, and I thought things [00:04:00] were good, so I wasn't really sure of what the point of doing it would be.

You wanna do that bit again? 

[00:04:12] Angie: No. Let's 

[00:04:12] Lendall: do it again. What? 

[00:04:13] Angie: Do what again? 

[00:04:15] Lendall: Just ask me the question again. 

[00:04:16] Angie: Why? I 

[00:04:18] Lendall: wanna be sounding like I know what I'm talking about. Okay, 

[00:04:22] Angie: why did you not want to do couples counseling? 

[00:04:24] Overcoming Misconceptions About Couples Therapy

[00:04:24] Angie: Like, you were pretty, like, not I wouldn't say against it, but you weren't like, yeah, I want to do it.

You're like, no, I don't want to do it. But you didn't really have a reason as to why. 

[00:04:34] Lendall: I did not know much about it. Really, it came down to me thinking I could figure it out if I just gave it time, you know, like if I, take the time to research it and find out more about what happens in therapy.

It was more about just understanding what happens in the session. And so I wasn't against it, but I also needed more information of what goes down when couples go to therapy. [00:05:00] Because everything I've learned about couples therapy was what I see on TV. Like, people arguing. Like, I can think of a scene in Ozark when literally they, obviously for different reasons, but everything you see about couples therapy in like sitcoms or any TV show is all negative and like arguments.

And so, I was very content with us being on the same page and happy, and I didn't want to argue in couples therapy. 

[00:05:33] Angie: So you thought therapy was just about arguing when it came to couples therapy? 

[00:05:38] Lendall: Until I dove deep into it, I think my understanding was, Couples therapy was just what I saw on TV, literally, and it would end up in us arguing about something that we didn't need to argue about.

[00:05:55] Angie: So what, give me an example of like what you thought you might, we might be arguing about that we didn't [00:06:00] need to argue about? 

[00:06:01] Lendall: I don't know if there's a specific topic, but it was just my initial thought of starting this. You know, therapy session and getting into it, we would come out with, you know, more questions about, you know, things like the laundry or like how we plan to live in our life, after we get married, you know, just silly little things that normally because we're not talking about, we would come up and then we would just, you know, argue for the sake of arguing because we're not on the same page.

No, 

[00:06:34] Angie: I'm just trying to understand like why. , wouldn't you want to talk about things? 

[00:06:40] Lendall: Not necessarily. I feel like I don't come from a background where I was used to being in a relationship or in a relationship where we spoke about things as openly as many people do. 

[00:06:55] Angie: Okay. 

[00:06:55] The Transformative Power of Therapy on Communication

[00:06:55] Angie: So now that we have kind of gone through the [00:07:00] process a little bit, what are your feelings now?

Because, so for me, I remember when I first came to you and said, or I think we were like in the middle of like a heated thing, there were things that came up, and I was like, I think we really need to go to couples therapy, this is important to me, blah, blah, blah, and that, and I think before that you never really said no, but you weren't like enthusiastically yes, but at that time you were like, no, I don't want to do it, , Would you want me to do it if I didn't want to, and at that time you finally said, like, no, I don't want to do it, and I was like, okay, , I can't force you, obviously, which would kind of be counterintuitive anyways, but, and I remember you said, like, are you still going to love me, or something, , when I suggested it, why do you think you reacted that way?

And 

[00:07:48] Lendall: Let me respond back to that question with how my friends and people who know me react when I tell them we're going to couples therapy, because I think in I guess the [00:08:00] connection of the world I live in, in terms of social connections and relationships, they give me the same reaction about couples therapy than I've had when you told me about it, which is, like, they kind of look shocked, like deer in the headlights.

And then they look like, Oh, what, you and Angie are so good. What's like, is everything okay? You know? And so that made me think like, yeah, I feel like the dominating norm or the dominating thought around couples therapy is you go to it when things are wrong. You go to it when you have an issue to talk about.

And that's, you know, that's, that's really not what it is at all. So initially my reactions to all those things about not wanting to go, or I'm not ready for it was more a combination of. I don't want to go through, you know, like you can call it ignorance too. You're like, you didn't, I didn't know what it actually entitled or what it actually was like, until you, you go through it.

And then I think now looking back on it, [00:09:00] it's basically, I'm a product of all the relationships, including my parents relationship. We grew up in a household as, you know, as a, as a Brown kid with Brown parents growing up. We didn't really talk much about feelings and there's no, there's no deconstructing and solution finding for conflict in the household.

It was just, we will deal with it when the, you know, when we get to it, or we will argue because that's just what you do when you're married, you know? No one ever teaches you how to have a a lasting relationship 

[00:09:35] Angie: or like constructive communication, nothing's ever going to be perfect, but having a constructive conversation where there's actually solutions that come out of it or you're understanding fully where the other person is coming from, not from a place of emotion, but from like, like no one, no one's going to be together if they're like purposely being malicious.

But like sometimes we take [00:10:00] things as, take things personally when maybe we shouldn't, right? 

[00:10:05] Lendall: Yeah, I think that's, that's the number one lesson. I think you definitely learn how to deepen your listening skills and your communication skills. In this setting, you know, like no one would, I still don't think of this day, anyone, any couple would sign up to go to like communication class or no couple would go sign up for, Hey, you just absolutely lost your shit on each other.

And let's go and talk about it now, you know, whereas had we not done this, my reaction is like, you know, when you like broke a pot or something, throwing a ball at it, you know, and then the pot falls to the ground and breaks. And then you glue it back together and then you're like, okay, I don't know if it's fixed, but let's take a step back and as long as we don't touch it or blow air near it, it should hold up, you know, that's what I think sometimes, that's what I thought a relationship was a time as long as we were like not yelling at each [00:11:00] other and as long as things are calm after, you know, you have an argument.

then it's fixed. But now looking at it, that's actually a terrible way of thinking, and it doesn't prevent it from happening, or it doesn't provide anyone with a solution that way.

[00:11:15] Angie: That was a really, profound answer. Were you scared that if we went to couples therapy, we might find out that we're actually not right for each other or something? Like, was that something you were afraid of? Or did that cross your mind?

Because I feel like every time Or , even before we started, you were like, Are you still gonna like me? I know you're like, kinda joking, but also kinda not. 

[00:11:37] Lendall: Yeah, I think so, , I think when it comes to talking about emotions and feelings, there's only so much experience I've had in my life doing it, and there's only so many people in my life that I genuinely talk about my emotions and feelings, and I wasn't sure about what to expect when, again, my understanding of therapy was just uncovering your feelings and emotions, [00:12:00] and Everything you learn about the experience, you know, I wasn't in a household where we Believed or talked about therapy let alone talking about our feelings.

So I had to rely on the External world and social media and tv to learn about all these things Which half the time are, you know dramatized and not actually what actually happens. , if you think about, , when someone's in the emergency room and they've got to use the, the pads to shock someone when they have a cardiac arrest.

First of all, we, everyone knows that's not true. If you take a CPR course, that's not how they actually do things. And so that's my metaphor thinking about therapy. It was just getting in there and talking about feelings and we wouldn't be aligned on feelings and therefore it would cause some sort of rift between us.

And because I had no understanding of it, I think we fear what we don't understand and it's, you know, no one's like excited to walk down a dark alley that they have no idea to, you [00:13:00] know, what, what to expect or like, yeah, you know, it was, I wasn't resisting, but I was more unsure. And I think that's why I was like, I don't know what to expect from it.

Geez, like, talking about emotions can be scary, so in case I don't say the right thing, I don't want it to jeopardize our relationship. 

[00:13:19] Angie: And now that we have gone to therapy, couples therapy, and our own individual therapy now, Do you think it was beneficial for us? 

[00:13:27] Lendall: Yeah, without a doubt. Like, there's, there's so many good things that came from it up until this point.

And I don't even think we're necessarily done. I think there's always, always something you can learn from the experience. 

[00:13:43] Angie: So the reason why I wanted to, I was pushing so hard for us to go to couples therapy is because I think, and I think a lot of couples who have, been together for a long time might agree with this, is that it's never one thing that ends up [00:14:00] breaking up somebody, whether it's a friendship, whether a romantic significant other type relationship, it's never just one thing.

Is an issue, right? It's always these little, little things that add up, that are not communicated, that are not talked about, and not dealt with, or they're like swept under the rug, or, one person is super vocal about something, and then the other one is maybe not so vocal, and then there's like resentment that's built up, Like, it's always an accumulation over the years, over time, and for me, I think one of my strengths is I'm pretty emotionally intelligent.

I feel like I am pretty self aware, and I feel like I can, now, with all the experience I have, I feel like I can anticipate, Things on an emotional level and I feel like yes, this is the safest best relationship I've ever been in in my life, and that's probably why we're getting [00:15:00] married.

Because before this relationship, I don't think I ever felt 100 percent in somebody that I was with. I was like, yeah, like we could, but I was never 100%. I was never like, yeah, this is my person for forever. Whereas like with you, I feel like it was the first time I was, like, completely safe, could completely be myself, but also it wasn't perfect, but I was okay with that.

 I was okay with whatever, imperfections, however small they were, but I did feel like there were small things that I was noticing. That over time could turn into really big things. And I didn't want that. And I think I had seen like a lot of my cousins or distant relatives, they had been together with partners and then they were getting a divorce.

And, , all of them, I could see that there was not that full transparent communication between them. A lot of things were swept under the rug, or put to the side, [00:16:00] or certain people's needs were put in front of the other, and it was just resentment and all this stuff built up. And I just didn't want that, like, I want us to, like, be old and grey and die together, like, in the notebook.

Alright. 

[00:16:15] Lendall: First time hearing that. 

[00:16:17] Angie: I just want us to be in the hospital bed together and die together. Or you die before me. I mean sorry, me, me die before you. 

[00:16:24] Lendall: No comment. 

[00:16:25] Learning to Communicate and Resolve Conflicts

[00:16:25] Angie: So, okay, talking about those little things what were some things before, like, now that you, we have a bit more of hindsight with our relationship. We've been together for five years, five years? Got together in well, officially 2019, but 2018. So five ish years, what were some small things that you think we might have, like, swept under the rug, or you think, , we were, Not so great at, that now we've improved at because of therapy.

I think

many, many 

[00:16:57] Lendall: little things in the [00:17:00] past we would, I would not consider something serious, but then having, you know, reflection on a lot of our, you know, a conflict or anything in The past, it's always stemmed over something simple. It's kind of funny because like the surface level stuff seemed to trigger, you know, a problem related to that.

I feel like communication after a disagreement is huge. I think we have more disagreements now and less, and less conflict. Like, I think, I don't know about you, but conflict feels like a deeper word, but also more of a serious word. And I think for me a disagreement is something that is smaller that we've just learned to overcome, and then we have a great way of handling it through communication, you know?

So, for example, if we agreed on, you know this person doing this chore, and, you know, it doesn't happen on that day. [00:18:00] Rather than going in there and being upset and thinking, this person doesn't care about me. We're both considering the context, considering communication about, okay, before we go make a judgment on what we see, let's go communicate about what's going on.

And I think we've gotten used to just asking questions, being open, being a little more forgiving and flexible. So there's that, and I think it definitely helps with, Putting our disagreements into a well organized solution. And we come up with, understandings and we even learn how to really check ourselves before we approach each person or approach each other, you know?

And I feel like we also, I don't think we wait to have conversations now.

Like I'm finding we talk about things well before our next appointment scheduled with our therapist. I think we definitely take our time and [00:19:00] Whether it's you bringing it up immediately, which is something that I've asked for, or me giving you space when you need space. Because in the past I was like, oh just tell me what's wrong now.

Like, you know, like, me something, me being someone that wants to solve a problem right away versus you being someone who needs not to dwell on it is It's, you know something that helps us just come up with our own system for handling things in our lives. 

[00:19:23] Angie: So what's an example of something we do better?

Like, what's an actual example? 

[00:19:28] Lendall: We can pull so many different examples, but, we can even pull basic household chores or like, understanding of the laundry, for example, like hot topic in any relationship, who does the laundry. But for us I do the laundry for both of us. And, you know, there are certain things we do at home that, you know, optimize a lot of different things and the flow of the week and whatnot.

So when, for example, I put the laundry in on the weekend, I wash it, I dry it, and then it [00:20:00] sits on this couch downstairs, you know, there's an agreement that I fold it and put it away. On days B in the past and days that didn't happen, like the laundry sits there unfolded for many a days.

It usually would be the start of a conversation. 

[00:20:14] Angie: Sometimes weeks. 

[00:20:16] Lendall: Sometimes weeks, you know? Sometimes I think, what's the point of folding it? Because we're just gonna unfold it. But that's a different thought for a different day. We now, or I now, communicate saying, because of therapy I know how important it is that we communicate the obvious and even if you think it's clear, communicate even more.

So it's even like, hey, I'm working this shift, I'm working till this time, I know I'm supposed to fold the laundry, that's great. I'm going to get to it by Thursday. And rather than Angie guessing when it's going to be done, or asking me when I'm in like a, you know, high stressful day, she now knows when it's going to be done, and now it's my own responsibility to do it on that day or before that day.

You know, so it's just easier to talk about it. If in the past, my stubbornness, [00:21:00] made me focus on the laundry and not ask for help. I've learned to ask for help and say, Hey, listen, I know it's my responsibility. I need help this week. And Angie's like, sure, I'll do it. And then, you know, we get through that week.

And then it's back to me the week after. So, it's about just communicating the obvious. And I say the obvious and asked in quotation marks because it might be obvious to me, but it's not obvious to Angie and vice versa. There's certain things that we've learned that are assumably obvious, but not to the other person.

So that's what therapy has helped us really dial in on our communication habits.

[00:21:40] Angie: Yeah, I think you hit it on the head. I didn't. Really put that into words, but the over communicating, you'll never regret over communicating. You will regret under communicating and not communicating your feelings. And I think, for a long time, for me, I would just, I'm very, I'll do it [00:22:00] myself, I don't need any help type of person.

So, if I ask for help and then it doesn't get done, I almost take it personally. You know what I mean? Like, I've, I don't ever ask for help, but I'm asking you for help, and now you're still, like, not doing it, and instead of me thinking, like, Oh, like, he's just busy, maybe he's overwhelmed, like, I take it as, like, you don't care about me.

Like, you don't care about my feelings. That's really toxic.

Is it toxic? 

[00:22:28] Lendall: Going straight to thinking someone doesn't care about someone? 

[00:22:30] Angie: Well, I'm not like, oh my god, he doesn't care about me, but I'm just like, you, it's more of a, like, you don't respect my time and my priorities. 

[00:22:39] Lendall: Because like, yeah, but we've learned through that or like now it's 

[00:22:42] Angie: yeah, 

[00:22:43] Lendall: I mean, I think we've learned that it's completely Not even in that same direction. It is close, but it is Motivated by something else 

[00:22:53] Angie: but also the other person might not even realize that something is important that important to you or you might not even [00:23:00] realize how I feel about something unless I actually say like, Hey, this is important to me, can you please?

Do this. 

[00:23:06] Lendall: Yes, I agree. 

[00:23:08] Angie: I think one big takeaway for me from therapy was I felt like a lot of the times you would be upset or you would like I would think you're upset and Sometimes you are and sometimes you don't even know you're upset or you don't even know you are feeling a certain thing And I would get frustrated with you because I would be like, Just tell me what's wrong.

 Just communicate with me. Just tell me. Just talk to me. And you would be like, no, nothing. I'm good. Whatever. And I would get frustrated with you because I'm like, he's like, hiding things. Not hiding things from me, but I'm like, you're just not, being open with me.

But it was actually that you didn't even know that something was bothering you yet. You know what I mean? Like, you didn't even understand what you were feeling at the time, so how would you be able to even communicate that if you didn't [00:24:00] understand yourself? And so I would take that as like, you're keeping things from me, but really you're not.

You're still processing, and you're just not ready to even talk about it yet. You don't even know that you need to be ready to talk about something because you're not even at that place yet. 

[00:24:16] Lendall: Yeah, I think if, if we just take the simple analogy of, when it comes to your emotions and emotional intelligence.

You're definitely like a text message and I'm like snail mail. So may take some time to get there, but it will get there. 

[00:24:33] Angie: Were you scared before our first session or what were your feelings before our first session? 

[00:24:38] Lendall: I was like a mess and like internally just all over the place. I looked for reasons to maybe even cancel to be honest.

And. Then I realized it's not the smart thing to do because eventually knowing you I'd have to do it. So then I started reframing it and being like, okay, let's go see what this is [00:25:00] actually like rather than me assuming what these sessions are like. And nervous was like a part of it.

I think it was more, I was more curious at that point. I, I think I started the day nervous and scared up until that point. But then as I got closer to it, I was just more like, okay, what is this actually like? And I think once I started being more curious about it, then I, then I saw it as an opportunity to like experience.

And I was like, look, if this doesn't work out, I know I can then go to you and say, okay, look, we've tried it this time. It's not working out like, or this is not for us. Let's go find something else, you know? So that's how I approached it. 

[00:25:43] Angie: Yeah. 

[00:25:44] The Benefits of Couples Therapy: A Personal Reflection

[00:25:44] Angie: I would say if you're in a relationship and you are thinking about going to couples therapy, I would highly recommend it.

I think Lendall will agree at this point now, now that we've kind of been through the process. And it's not like, it's [00:26:00] not like things need to be wrong, 

because When things are too far gone, it's almost too late to make changes, and that's what our, even what our therapist has told us, he sees people pretty much at the edge, on the brink of divorce, and he will bring up topics, bring up things with them, and they're just so, like, it's so far gone, it's, everything is so personal, and so deep, that it's almost like We're, just jumping over these little, like, potholes and hills, whereas, they're literally trying to climb that mountain to get over their struggles.

Whereas, right now, ours are just little, stepping stones you like that? You like the little analogy? 

[00:26:40] Lendall: That was really good. I just thought of another one, too. 

[00:26:42] Angie: Go ahead. 

[00:26:43] Lendall: It's kind of like anyone's playing the game Overcooked.

Like, there's definitely some couples that are probably dealing with, like, Overcooked. Literally about to fail the mission. Whereas, compared to that, I would say we were just like, behind in a couple of orders, you know? [00:27:00] So, shout out to Adam's Jess if you've played that game with us. You know how stressful that can be.

So, overcooked. 

[00:27:07] Angie: Yeah, that's a good one. I also felt like couples therapy was very validating. For us, that we're like, on the right path in our relationship. Because I know you were nervous about starting it, I just felt like you were nervous about like, something being uncovered, where it's like, oh, no, we shouldn't be together.

[00:27:25] Lendall: Yeah, I agree. 

[00:27:26] Overcoming Initial Therapy Fears

[00:27:26] Lendall: I mean, now that on it, I was like, really unreasonable, and I have no idea why. I thought that we would discover that , I'm fraud, and I don't understand, I don't know. It doesn't make any sense. I thought that like, We would lead down this really intense conversation and it would end up that somehow the therapist would gang up on me and I would end up being like, like, Oh my God, Lendall's a terrible person.

And we're like, okay, let's end it now. I don't know why I thought about that, but it's not really, it's really irrational. So I'm glad that didn't happen. But this actually happened, I think, after the first session. 

[00:27:57] The Power of Simple Communication Strategies

[00:27:57] Lendall: The first session, our advice given to [00:28:00] us, or it's the strategy we learned from, and I like it because we had actionable strategy.

Yeah. It was really simple. It's like, Hey, listen, I'm not going to give you this big step, but whenever you have a thing come up now that you don't agree with, why don't you start by using, I feel, and then let the other person say their, I feel statement and then go from there and coming out of it. I was like, really dude, that's it.

We paid all this money for you to tell us literally that. And I was like, okay, maybe, you know, like the best solutions, people are really good at what they do, end up simplifying. everything for their, you know, the clients or the people they work with. And I was like, okay, like let's trust it. And then sure enough we tried it for a few, you know, like try it next time.

And I think our next session wasn't for like two weeks after or three weeks after. And it was crazy how much of a turnaround it was for. For us, and even the therapist was like, he was always like, wow, I can't believe that worked. Like almost like that [00:29:00] kind of reaction, right? 

[00:29:01] Angie: Yeah. 

[00:29:02] The Impact of 'I Feel' Statements in Conversations

[00:29:02] Angie: So I think you're, what you're referring to is, so he was saying when you're talking about something, when you're communicating about something, one, one person, yeah, one person should say like, this is how I'm feeling.

 I feel like when this happens, I feel this way or whatever, whatever you're trying to communicate. Because 

[00:29:21] Lendall: A lot of our arguments or a lot of our things would start with. You did this, or you forgot to do this, or why did you do this? And it would begin with a you statement rather than us starting with, Okay, here's what happened, this is how it makes me feel, which completely changes the nature of the conversation.

[00:29:39] Angie: Yeah, this is just a side note, but I had this friend, who we are no longer friends anymore, but, I remember we had this huge fight, and she literally said to me, like, I don't, with my close people, like, I don't have time to use I statements. I should be able to talk to my friends however, and they just get it.

And that's just, like, simply not true [00:30:00] at all. Like, with the people closest to you, you should probably have the strongest communication, and the strongest, like, You should, you should care how your message is being received. By the people closest to you, and sometimes, unfortunately, we do treat the people closest to us the worst.

Because we take them for granted, and we think like, ah, they're, they're my close people, they, they should be with me forever, no matter what I do, but that, that is toxic to me as well. So, just simply changing the way you're saying something, and changing your message, just by simply saying, hey, you know, like, when you did it, do this, it kind of makes me feel like this.

Instead of saying, you did this, you, this is your fault, why did you do this, and it's very accusatory, almost like an attack on someone, whereas the I statement reflects the behavior and how that [00:31:00] behavior makes you feel versus like the person, and it's not a personal attack, you know what I mean? 

[00:31:05] Lendall: Yeah. Also because when you say you feel, it's almost undeniable because You may not, like, when you go to use a you statement and you say, like, you did this, there is a 100 percent chance you don't know the entire context or the motivation of why that happened.

There's, like, literally, you're missing something when you say, you did this. Even if you saw it happen, you don't know everything about why the decision was made. You know, like, you forgot this. Okay, well, you don't know so many other things. What's motivating this person? Why did this happen at this time? So, you know, there's that.

There's a lot of uncertainty. Whereas if you say, I feel this, And the person hearing it can't deny that, right? Like, Hey, I feel like whatever if this happened and then the person be like, Oh yeah, like you can pretty quickly be in agreement on that. That kind of like just puts you on the same understanding.

And if you're shocked by that, I feel a statement that I kind [00:32:00] of, I think it makes you think, okay, well let me hear more. And then the conversation then continues on until the point where hopefully it is, it comes to a solution. 

[00:32:09] Angie: Yeah. I also think that One situation, anyone can react or feel completely different, like, I think feelings are very subjective.

So, we're all feeling and projecting into this world based on our own experiences. So, something might affect me a lot harder than it affects you and vice versa. So, it's kind of like, your feelings are your feelings. So, regardless of your intent, how you made someone feel is real. 

[00:32:40] Lendall: I Mean, there's there's not much to say other than how you make someone feel is real 

[00:32:46] Navigating Misunderstandings and Clarifications

[00:32:46] Angie: also, so in addition to the I statements our therapist also said Okay, once you've said your I statement, or once you've expressed your feelings, now the other person needs to clarify.

[00:33:00] So for example, I would say, Hey, when, when you leave the laundry sitting out for weeks, it makes me feel like you don't respect me. And it makes me feel like, it makes me feel like I have to do all the work around the house. And then you would have to say, okay, so what I'm hearing is. This behavior makes you kind of feel unappreciated, it makes you feel like you're carrying everything by yourself, that would be a, like, okay, I'm, what I'm hearing is.

[00:33:31] Lendall: I don't know what you're asking me. 

[00:33:32] Angie: Oh, I'm not asking you, I'm just like saying. 

[00:33:34] Lendall: Yeah, that makes sense. 

[00:33:35] Angie: So like clarifying, because you could hear something and be like, Okay. Okay, so what I'm hearing is you think I'm a piece of shit because I left the laundry out and it's like no, that's, that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying this makes me feel like this.

Sometimes we can get defensive if someone comes at us in any way, shape, or form. So, and we can take it more personally than it needs to be. [00:34:00] So, having that extra layer of clarification to be like, okay, so what I'm understanding from your statement is, da da da da da, and if you're both on the same page, then you can continue to have a constructive conversation.

[00:34:13] Lendall: Yep, I think that's huge. I think, if you don't have a shared understanding or a shared pool of, I guess comfort when it comes to having these conversations, then like, it doesn't matter what the other person says. You're just going to always be on different pages. Like, whereas you need to agree to have this conversation.

It's almost, almost better not to, you know, to be aware of what you're saying so that it puts the person into like an invitation to chat about it rather than a reason to defend themselves. I think that's a huge thing, like even in a relationship or like, and I don't mean like necessarily always. the couple's relationship, but like with close friends, with colleagues, with anyone in your life, like you, you want to always have an invite so that you both collaborate, [00:35:00] right?

That's why it's teamwork, right? Rather than, trying to like defend or prove your point, right? We're not, we're not at a debate. We're at a point where you're trying to collaborate. I think that's the key point there of how to start said resolution or set conflicts has to start with. Both of you entering with the same level of understanding.

[00:35:22] Evolving Communication in Relationships

[00:35:22] Angie: Also now I feel like we've taken it to another level where okay in our house we have this like ledge and Lendall likes it, it's very clean, he doesn't like things on top of this ledge. Yep, he likes it bare. Sometimes I tend to put my keys on there, or mail, or I haven't done it in a really long time.

Only this past week. Only this past few weeks, I've been What do you think that means? What do you mean? 

[00:35:47] Lendall: Why do you think you all of a sudden started doing it and didn't start? 

[00:35:50] Angie: Because I feel like when I put it in other places, then it gets forgotten about. Whereas this is like, okay, it's in my sight, I know I have to deal with it.

That's why I've been putting it on the ledge. [00:36:00] 

[00:36:00] Lendall: Interesting. Continue. 

[00:36:02] Angie: How does that make you feel? 

[00:36:04] Lendall: Makes me feel quite annoyed. But, we've coped. So, we are going to move on and hopefully you figure your shit out. 

[00:36:12] Angie: So what I'm hearing is me putting stuff on the ledge. Makes you feel frustrated and annoyed.

[00:36:20] Lendall: Yesh. 

[00:36:21] Angie: Okay. I will try to do better, Shugabees. 

[00:36:24] Lendall: How will you try to do better? 

[00:36:26] Angie: I will try to put things away in their proper place instead of putting it on the ledge. Or create a new space 

[00:36:35] Lendall: for No, no. Just put it away where it's supposed to go. 

[00:36:38] Angie: But what if it doesn't have a place to go? 

[00:36:39] Lendall: Then find one.

[00:36:40] Angie: That's what I mean. So I would create a space for it to be put away. 

[00:36:44] Lendall: What would you have that has no space for? 

[00:36:47] Angie: Like, right now we just fling our keys on the No, no, no. 

[00:36:49] Lendall: Don't say we. 

[00:36:50] Angie: Yes!

Where do you put your keys? What's the place for your keys? 

[00:36:53] Lendall: 90 percent of the time it's by the staircase. 

[00:36:56] Angie: Right. Is that a great place for it though? 

[00:36:58] Lendall: I feel like we need to [00:37:00] come up with a new spot. 

[00:37:01] Angie: Yeah, like maybe we need a door hang for the keys or something. 

[00:37:04] Lendall: Comment below with solutions so we can Okay, i'm just kidding.

Yeah, we need a new spot. 

[00:37:09] Angie: Yeah, that's what I mean So sometimes I put it on the ledge because it's like easier if I have like a bunch of bags and stuff and You know, 

[00:37:16] Lendall: yep, that's fair 

[00:37:17] Angie: So instead of being like, oh my gosh, I've told you so many times to like not put this stuff on the ledge. Now we come from a place of, hey, I've noticed that you keep putting this stuff on the ledge.

How can I support you to not do this? So that it's both of our problems and not just like one person's problem to figure it out. 

[00:37:40] Lendall: Yeah, we also, like, I also have to give real advice what actually happens, because I also think it's relatable, and I think what actually happens in those moments is almost us having a lighthearted moment, like, I think we, we start with humor.

[00:37:59] Angie: Yeah, [00:38:00] so what he's referring to is, so I think both, me probably more, but both of us have a habit of like, we'll see something and be like, What's going on here? So for me, it's like the piles of things in our downstairs. And I'll just walk by and before I would be like, What's going on with this?

Like, when are you gonna clean it up? And now I'll just like walk by, I'll look at it, and then I'll just put my hands over my Eyes and be like I'm blind because I can't see it. There's nothing here. That's gonna piss me off And then that makes you laugh and then you're like, okay I need to deal with this soon because I'm only gonna get the leeway for so long 

Okay, so, next steps. 

[00:38:46] Reflecting on Therapy Experiences and Future Plans

[00:38:46] Angie: Were you happy with our therapist that we got? 

[00:38:49] Lendall: To be honest, I mean, like, it started off well, but I feel like we've outgrown the experience.

Like, I think he was great. With 

[00:38:58] Angie: him, you mean. 

[00:38:59] Lendall: [00:39:00] Yeah, I think, like, there's nothing wrong with that. 

[00:39:02] The Importance of Therapy in Personal Growth

[00:39:02] Lendall: I feel like, you know, I, I would definitely go back, but I just feel like now I'm curious to see what other experience is like, because truth be told, not only did I start couples therapy for the first time, what, three, three months ago, I also started personal therapy three months ago, and just from a curious perspective, I know it's different context, because individual and couples are different, and if you're out there listening to this, like, Just know that there is a drastic difference, so go in with that understanding that couples and individual therapy is definitely huge but why I'm bringing this up is I am curious to see what other therapists are like, or, you know, not that I want to keep changing all the time.

I want to find one that, you know, just want to see what their style is like and how they coach different couples. Like, what are they like? And so I imagine maybe in our lifetime, we would see like, I don't know, two to three therapists. I feel like there's one that we really like we'll stick with. But, since this is on you [00:40:00] and this is so like, the experience is so great.

I want to see what else is out there. I want to see what else, We can do and learn just like you would, you know, with any other expert you go see I've learned. Enough to help us grow, but, you know, I would like to learn from someone else. 

[00:40:17] Angie: Yeah, and I think that's important because some, even with individual therapy or couples therapy, Like, not every therapist is going to be for you. 

 And if you don't click with somebody, I would encourage you to just try another person, get a different recommendation. Like, even for my own individual therapy, I was with someone for a good, Two years, I want to say, and then she went on mat leave, so I had to go with somebody else. I ended up, like, taking some time off from therapy, which I think is perfectly fine to do.

If that is safe for you, because You kind of get to put in the work and get to use those strategies in real life and just see how [00:41:00] that affects you in real life. So my therapist went on mat leave and then I just asked her for a recommendation and I actually ended up liking my new therapist like way better than my older one.

And so don't be afraid to just because you've put in the time with somebody else there might be somebody that's ready to receive you in your next stage of your life. For me, it's very important to have, a person of color to provide therapy for me, just because I think there is so much nuance in the way we were raised may not be as important for you, like, I know, Lendall, you weren't, as concerned about that, but I was very adamant our therapist was A BIPOC therapist, he was great, like some things were like, no, like, this could probably be better, but overall he was really good, and yeah, I think we definitely will like explore more options.

[00:42:00] But we're not afraid to do that, which is important, don't, don't be afraid to try something new with the therapist and just go in very open and honest because they're not mind readers, they can only work with what you tell them, and it's important to do the work between sessions and especially in couples, like, I think with individual, the therapists will prod you and, give you prompts for things that you can talk about. I think with couples, it's like, it, it, you do have responsibility to bring forward any issues that are troubling you because , even with our sessions, there was one session where we kind of, like, had a busy few months, we had this session booked, neither of us were prepared to, like, really talk about anything in particular, and then the session was kind of, like, not as valuable as it could have been, right?

So, I think that's something also to [00:43:00] keep in mind if you're considering couples therapy. Is to like really think about each it's like almost like with every meditation you're doing with every workout you're doing With, like, anything that you're doing, you have to have, like, some sort of purpose behind it, right?

So, just thinking about, like, what is the goal that you want to achieve in that session, and what value are you trying to gain from it? And I think once you really find someone that you click with, I think then it's, it is okay to just stick with them. 

[00:43:30] Advice for Couples Considering Therapy

[00:43:30] Angie: Do you have any advice for anybody that's kind of in the same situation as you, where you weren't as, you were kind of reluctant to go into therapy?

[00:43:39] Lendall: Yeah, I feel you definitely still need to go in when you're ready. No one forced me to do it. I think you just need the space and time to be okay to it. I think both of you, we need to be in agreement to go like. Angie was probably ready like 10 years ago, and I was ready, you know, four months ago. And I think that is a first [00:44:00] step that's very pivotal.

Also, you know, I don't know how you keep notes of stuff or how you remember things, but some people just remember and will never forget. That is Angie, and she'll just have a mental note pad in her head. For me, I, you know, I needed to look back at like notes. I could type out notes. Section in my, my phone that's locked and it's private only I can see it.

I got this idea from a client of mine and I just, you know, if I have an argument, it's just, or, or, you know, something I want to bring up, it's just like something I just go to that note, put a line in there and it says laundry, you know, or I put in something like just to remind myself you know, April 30th.

And I just put that date in and I, you know, refer back to that. It's enough to jog my memory because. I think in the day to day you lose these moments or like you just have so many things to keep in mind that sometimes you need to write down specific things you want to bring up and I feel like if I didn't say this and you're [00:45:00] in, you know, up until now, it's definitely not anything like you see on TV.

Like it's all. That's what you see on TV or what you see from, you know, other perspectives of what therapy is. A couple's therapy specifically, it's not anything like the experience you get. Like it's very constructive. It's almost like, it's almost an opportunity to learn more about each other. And if you don't learn more about each other, you learn about like a strategy and skill to.

[00:45:28] Learning and Growing Through Therapy

[00:45:28] Lendall: Work on things, because my last piece of advice would be to go when, I definitely think you should go when things are good rather than things are, you know, problematic, or like, you know, pretty far gone, because then things just get way too personal, I think like, maybe You know, like I don't know anyone out there that is in the same boat as us, but for our for our wedding part of our requirements is to go to this marriage course for the [00:46:00] Catholic faith.

And I almost feel like what's more applicable is probably What we're doing now rather than, you know, talking about deepening our faith, not that I think that's not important if, you know, that's something that's important to you, whatever, like, do your thing. I'm very respectful of that. I definitely think, you know, people always say, like, in high school, you learned about, like, the mitochondria, the power of the cell, or like, Something that does not applicable to life.

Like we should have been learning about taxes and, and finances and like soft skills. I think that was way more applicable, especially now growing up in a tech world. I feel like this is something that every couple should do because that'll pretty much tell you right there how your relationship will go.

When things are challenging, not when things are good. The, the value in learning about what the person's like in a relationship, when you were in a conflict is more [00:47:00] important than anything else you will learn. Like I have a few friends that tell me that it's, they find it hard to commit to someone and I'm like, okay, probably true, but maybe if you experienced what it's like when You are both at like your worst or like when you're both at, you know, opposing ends of a certain issue or task, that's when you actually will feel like if you can navigate that, you can navigate any, anything, you know, but that's what I really took away.

Like the purpose of me going to therapy was to learn how to navigate every little thing and big thing so that like, whenever that time happens, we were equipped with. The strategies of communication so that we can at least figure it out. We may still get stuff wrong, but we're not going to be like starting a war with each other.

We're going to be just like learning how to, Oh my God, this is on fire. Let's collaborate. Let's be on the same page right away. And then let's handle this together. Because, like, [00:48:00] there's nothing worse than trying to put out a fire when the other person is, you know, against you. 

 I think for me, I would just say, again, like, patience. So, I was ready for therapy, like, realistically, for us. Like, I was ready, like, three years ago. Like we've been engaged for three years. I, I wanted to do it like three years ago, but I could see that you were not ready and I didn't want to force you.

[00:48:24] Angie: And so I would just like say to anybody, if you're in that situation, like I was where like you're ready, but your partner is not just to give them that space to get there. If they do, or like, maybe there's something else you can do. 

[00:48:39] Lendall: I don't know. I feel, I feel like this is one of the best because like, I don't know, there's what, there's an expression or like this thing that people always say, like, really want to learn about someone, like, you know, move in with them or like travel with them. And I'm like, okay, that's, that's cute. But like, I think the 2024 version of this is like, if you really want to like, want a relationship to thrive, [00:49:00] go to couples therapy.

Like I think it's not called like as far as I'm correct like you don't have there's no criteria I think like you don't have to be like in there for a certain period of time like I think you can go in Right like you don't have to be like on your pathway of getting married like I think like If you're one year in a relationship, you'd be an excellent, like, gift to each other.

I think if you just go in and just like, hey, let's try this out too. This is like, you know,

[00:49:24] Angie: yeah, and I think that's the real thing, like, and I think we both have come to the understanding that a relationship is work, just like your physical health is work, it takes time, just like a career that you're building for yourself, like your relationship, if that is something that is important to you, should also be a priority that you are pouring into, and I think therapy is a great way to do that because you're, it just kind of Forces you, but gently, to talk about the things that are [00:50:00] not that fun.

Like, we wouldn't be sitting down and be like, Hey, let's talk about finances right now. There's a unbiased mediator there to either call you out on your stuff, because it's easy for me to be like, Oh, well, you're acting this way because of this. Whereas someone with fresh eyes can be like, Okay, like, this is what I'm seeing.

And this is the reactions I'm seeing and you can follow up accordingly based on that. But if you're just like super emotional and like going back and forth and sometimes it might, you can have strategies based on like who you are as people. So like I know for me sometimes I need a minute to like gather my thoughts.

I'm not as like great articulating my thoughts. And when I'm super emotional, I need to like sit on it or like write it down, like, I know when I've had like arguments with friends, I'd rather like text them, but like in a nice, like full thought [00:51:00] versus like getting on the phone and not being able to convey my thoughts effectively.

So like, whatever your strategies are, you will get that. And it's good for, I feel like it's beneficial not only for your relationships, but for like friendships too. Thank you. And just how you speak to your parents and all of that stuff, like, it's beneficial. And it's probably the most beneficial when things are great.

Or like, things are like, ooh, I'm like noticing a little bit of, shiftiness. Let's like, figure this stuff out. Because in our sessions, I will say, because we can only speak for Like our therapist would point something out and I would be like, oh, yeah I'm wrong about this. Like I need to be better at doing this and he would be like, okay Like I feel like he was almost surprised at How quickly we would arrive at a solution or how quickly we would be like, Oh, yeah, like I can see that I was wrong in this situation, or I need to, I need to adjust [00:52:00] my thinking.

 An example was like budgeting and stuff like, I was like, yeah, you know what's a great idea? Like, sitting down every month and having a spreadsheet and putting all of our budgeting stuff in there and seeing what we're doing. And I was like, this is great. This is going to keep us on our finances.

And you were like, I hate this. And this makes me feel stressed out. No, 

[00:52:22] Lendall: it was pivotal because I was like, no, because this is not great because all this is going to do is it's going to give you ammo to, like, question everything I do. And, like, Knowing you, you just have like the, and this type a personality that's like, do you really need some money on that?

Do you really spend money on that? I'm like, no, because I think like, as long as we cover our basic necessities and you know, you know, this, this, this is getting handled, I don't need someone to sit out and look over my shoulder and handle everything, you know, and, and like question every single decision I'm like, if we handle, we handle, then I think we have some level of like trust in each other to like handle the rest, you know?

And like, we don't need to sit there and have this like, This thing, [00:53:00] if we can have a better system in place. 

[00:53:02] Angie: Yeah. But you also said that like those kinds of meetings made you feel more stressed out and it wasn't really like helping you versus like, for me, I was like, this is great for me. Cause I have like full transparency, but again, you're right.

Like, you're like, why do you need to know like each and every line item? And I was like, cause I just want to know. And you're like, but why though? Like, you just, you just want to be able to say oh, like you spent too much here. Like you spend too much here. 

[00:53:30] Lendall: You definitely weren't doing it to like celebrate the things I was spending.

That's for sure. Like you were doing it more to like. I think you didn't realize you were doing it more to like, in some cases, cure your curiosity, but in most times it's like, oh, this is where you should be cutting corners, this is where you should be doing that. And I'm like, okay, well like, the same reason, it was like the same reason why when it comes to cleaning up your nutrition, you don't just go cold turkey and like, you know, cut out everything you like.

Sometimes the things that work best work gradually. 

[00:53:59] Angie: You're [00:54:00] right. And now, And in therapy, we kind of figured that out and our therapist was like, okay, like, what is a better way to still be transparent and still talk about your finances, but that makes you both feel comfortable and you kind of like said, like, hey, this is, this is another way that I can show you and which like actually celebrates the progressions you're making in your finances versus coming at it from like, Well, this is how much debt I have.

And like, this is like, like I wanted to see like all the numbers, but you're like, Hey, like that doesn't help me. Like that makes me feel more defeated versus. The way you're doing it now sometimes the solution is not so black and white and it's not going to be something you necessarily love as a couple you can decide what is working and you need to also have empathy for your partner and be like okay like I can see this is hurting you and just because I want it [00:55:00] this way doesn't mean it's the best way to do something so that was something we got out of therapy as well.

And overall, it was just very validating. we had a bunch of sessions there was one session where he was just kind of like going back and forth asking us different questions about each other. And at the end of the session, he was like, so I was asking you these questions, not just for your answers, but for the reactions from your partner.

 Cause, often in couples, they might be like, Oh yeah, he, I'm great at taking care of the house, and I'm great at doing this and that. And the other person is probably like, What the fuck?

Like, no you're not, right? And it's like, sometimes you're not even on the same page. So, at, in that session in particular, it was just pretty validating, cause he was like, yeah, you, I don't know if you guys are really good actors, or what. But he was like, you guys seem to be, like, on the same page, I feel like we were very, good with, [00:56:00] even if we were wrong, or even if we didn't agree in something, like, we would, we would be open about that, and not just be like, whoa, what's this guy talking about?

That's not how I feel. So that was just pretty validating, and you might find that, that it's very validating, or you might find some red flags. And, you know, maybe it's time to have a chat about that. That, that could happen, too, if, if you're not a couple that's being straight up with each other and not talking about things.

On a day to day basis or even a month to month basis. 

[00:56:32] Closing Thoughts and Encouragement for Therapy

[00:56:32] Angie: So, overall, ten fingers up for Not ten fingers up. Thumbs up for couples therapy. 

[00:56:40] Lendall: We only have four thumbs between us. But yes, four thumbs up. 

[00:56:44] Angie: I said thumbs up. You said ten 

[00:56:46] Lendall: thumbs up. 

[00:56:46] Angie: No, I said ten fingers up and then I realized that doesn't make sense.

Correct. So thumbs up. Yes. So anyways, if you, like this episode and want to hear more like this, I [00:57:00] have a link in the Honey lemon pod on Spotify or Apple podcasts a little rating.

Give me a little five star rating Give me a review on Apple podcasts. It really helps the platforms push my podcast so I can be a Full time podcaster, which is my dream. And follow us at Wanna plug your Instagram? Or whatever? 

[00:57:26] Lendall: Yep, because my Instagram is just at Lendall. Because I finally have my own name at my Instagram handle, which I've been trying to do for the last three years.

[00:57:37] Angie: So that's at L-E-N-D-A-L-L If you wanna follow Lendell and you can follow me on my personal page at Angie Theva, A-N-G-I-E-T-H-E-V-A and follow the Honey Lemon Pod at the Honey Lemon Pod on Instagram. TikTok coming soon and hope you enjoy this episode. Be well, be loved. See you later.